Or, why interview performance doesn’t equate to job performance.
Firstly, it’s nice to be back. We took some time away with family, which we meant to do at Easter, but Ex-Tropical Cyclone Alfred cancelled our flights to the GC. So we toughed it out and worked through, like everyone else.
So we had a week on the GC and then it was our son’s 21st, which was a major milestone, but his idea of a party was, frankly, disappointing. Too much Kombucha, not enough Scotch. But there you go, kids these days….
Onto the good stuff.
I recall a few years ago, when a hiring manager provided some post-interview feedback and said, “They just didn’t excite me.” We talked through specifically what he meant, and it was basically vibes.
He wanted someone who performed well in the interview. He wanted confidence, charisma and chemistry.
But if your interviews feel more like auditions, you’ll keep hiring the people who perform best under pressure, not the ones who’ll perform best in the role.
This is a problem.
And it matters more than we think. When our interviews prioritise performance over understanding, we miss details and specifics.
And good hiring is about getting lots of details right.
When we over-index for talkers over doers, we risk falling for candidates who’ve done the circuit and learned the script.
Interviewing to understand is slower and harder. But better. Because it lets you see:
- How a person thinks and solves
- What they’ve done (not just what they’ve learned to say)
- How their values, instincts and pace align with yours
And while it’s absolutely fine to feel excited about a new hire starting, “they didn’t excite me” is a red flag. It often means the hiring bar is vibe-based.
And vibe-based hiring doesn’t scale.
It’s hard to know if someone’s right for the role if you’re not sure what the role is.
Too often, I’ve seen people default to experience as a proxy and lean on chemistry as a shortcut.
But before you can interview well, you need to know:
- What will this person be responsible for?
- How will success be measured & by whom, and over what time?
- What skills matter most in this specific context, not just on paper?
- Where will they need to lead, where will they need to follow, and what trade-offs will they face?
Without answers to these, interviews become guesswork. Worse, they become style over substance. This is when we start to say things like “they didn’t excite me”, when what we’re really saying is “I’m not clear what I was looking for.”
So if you want better interviews, start before the interview. Map the work. Define the outcomes. Align the bar. That way, you’re not interviewing for a vibe. You’re interviewing for a job.
Performative interviews often lead to performative hires.
When the interview becomes a stage, the role tends to attract the best actor, not the best person for the job.
The best talkers are often not;
- Quiet thinkers who need a few beats to connect the dots
- Builders who are better at showing their work than talking about it
- Culturally aligned people who don’t match your style, but might match your values
- Candidates from different industries or backgrounds who haven’t yet learned the script
And here’s what they often reward:
- Overconfident talkers who’ve done 20 interviews this quarter
- People who are great at repeating frameworks, but struggle to adapt them
- Candidates who say all the right things, but struggle to follow through on them
This is how you end up with someone who “sounded great” but can’t deliver. Or worse, someone who turns out to be misaligned on pace, values, or teamwork, and ends up doing more harm than good.
The best candidate may be a little awkward, and that’s fine. You’re not necessarily hiring a presenter. You’re hiring a team member.
Why does this keep happening? Because most people have never been taught how to interview.
Interviewing is one of the most high-stakes responsibilities a leader can have. But most people are expected to just… figure it out.
No training. No structure. No real feedback. Just a calendar invite and a LinkedIn profile—and the pressure to decide if this person is the right fit.
So it makes sense that people default to “feel.” They rely on instinct, chemistry, or the comfort of someone who sounds like them. They confuse confidence with competence, and performance with potential.
This isn’t because they’re lazy or careless. It’s because they’ve never been shown another way. And in most businesses, hiring isn’t seen as core leadership work—it’s seen as a distraction from it.
But the truth is, interviewing is the job. It shapes the team. It shapes the culture. And if you do it poorly, you’ll spend far more time managing the consequences than you saved by skipping the prep.
So, what do you actually want to learn in an interview?
If you’ve done the work to understand the role, then your interviews should be focused on understanding the candidate. Not if they’re exciting. Not if they’re polished. But if they can do the work, in your context, alongside your team, with your pace, values and constraints.
Excitement fades. Understanding lasts.
What I learned from James Hanley.
Product Leader, Team Builder, and Interviewer Who Actually Likes People
James Hanley has spent over seven years inside Zendesk, hiring and leading product teams as the business scaled globally. He’s seen the messy middle between startup chaos and enterprise complexity — and he’s built a leadership style grounded in empathy, clarity, and quiet confidence.
What made this conversation stand out wasn’t just what James has learned about hiring — it’s what he’s learned about himself. He doesn’t pretend to have all the answers. But he’s sharp on the right questions.
Here’s what stuck with me.
1. Leadership starts with knowing your limits — and getting over them
“I used to avoid hiring people I wasn’t sure I could manage.”
Early in his career, James let his own uncertainty shape his hiring decisions. He steered away from strong personalities, not because they weren’t capable, but because he wasn’t sure he could lead them well. That kind of self-awareness is rare — and so is the willingness to outgrow it.
These days, his approach is different: be clear on what the team needs most, and hire someone better than you at that one thing. Then get out of their way and support where it counts.
2. You’re not there to do the work — you’re there to be the glue
“My job isn’t to be the expert. It’s to connect the people who are.”
As James’s teams grew, so did his understanding of his role. Instead of spreading people thin across too many priorities, he learned to rally the team around one problem at a time — putting the right people on it, shielding them from noise, and focusing the whole group on throughput.
That shift — from task allocation to clarity and cohesion — is what moved him from manager to true team leader.
3. Great hires reduce your stress, not add to it
“How would I feel if this person started Monday?”
Forget unicorns. James uses a simpler heuristic: does this person make my team stronger and my life easier? Will they unblock things? Communicate well? Handle ambiguity without panic?
He’s learned to trust the signal that comes from that imagined Monday. If it feels like relief, not risk — you’ve probably got the right person.
4. Hiring isn’t just validation — it’s storytelling
“You’re not just testing a candidate. You’re helping them test you.”
James avoids robotic Q&A. He sets the scene, shares the business context, and explains why the role exists. He’s big on follow-up questions — not just what you ask, but how you go deeper.
Whether you’re a hiring manager or a candidate, how you ask and how you listen matters more than any framework. Because interviews aren’t just about being impressive — they’re about being aligned.
Before you go, can you help me out?
Nearly 1200 people have now subscribed to this newsletter in ~9 weeks, which makes me feel that it’s resonating. So thank you to all of you 🙏🏻
If you found this issue useful, here are four ways you could support me:
- Share it – Forward this to a founder, hiring manager, or job seeker who you think might find it useful and/or interesting.
- Follow StartUpHiring on LinkedIn if you’re not already – https://www.linkedin.com/company/startuphiringaustralia
- Subscribe on Substack – Get early access to podcasts, templates, AI prompts, and bonus content at https://startuphiring.com.au/
- Send feedback – What topics would help you most? What’s working? What isn’t? Just hit reply.
I’m building this into the go-to resource for startup hiring. Whether you’re hiring your first employee or looking for your next role, I want this to be genuinely useful for you.
These small actions make a massive difference in helping me reach more people who need this content.
Thanks for being here. Have a brilliant week ahead.
Weekly newsletter drop:
- Wednesday 1:30pm – The Main Issue: Usually a comprehensive guide with advice for teams & talent, plus the latest podcast
Need hiring help?
If you’re struggling with a specific hiring challenge, I still offer 1:1 strategy calls through my consultancy, Crew. Book a 15-minute clarity call here
Simon
